RochesterConservative.com

phantomlord posted another gem to the D&C Forum discussion, “Student poverty up in the suburbs”, that I’d like to share with the readers of RochesterConservative.com. RV

Forum participant, Left_outa_roch posted (all further text in quotes and italics is from Left_outa_roch) :

“I agree with many of your points..but seems to me that the gap between the top percentile and the middle class grows larger and larger everyday”

In which phantomlord replied:

The rich can afford to pay taxes (it hurts the economy in the long run, but Warren Buffet isn’t going to starve if he has a 75% tax rate). Once you have a significant pool of capital, you have to try hard to not make more (even a 5% return on $1 million will net you $50k a year).

However, the middle class cannot keep being taxed at the rate that it is and expect to thrive. We’ve had to increase taxes over the years to cover social programs to protect the poor and those same taxes are driving down the real wages and buying power of the middle class.

The problem is that the ranks of the poor (and I say that in the context of those who are able bodied, not those who are disabled and unable to care for themselves) are growing (for a variety of reasons) and continually demanding more. Taxing the middle class will only make them poor. Taxing the rich exorbitantly will only make them poor too.

Eventually, we have to draw a line and say “this is all we can support and still function healthy in society economically.” The fact that we’re $9 trillion in debt nationally and $90 billion in debt at NY shows that we’ve already spent beyond our means. All of that money has to be paid back eventually and who is going to bear the burden? Not the poor or the wealthy, the middle class. They’ve been speaking with their feet for a couple decades now and are leaving, making the problem even more pressing as NY turns into a true state of have and have nots. Even NYC’s status as financial capital of the world is eroding and London is taking back the throne.

The only way to solve that is to reduce government. Yeah, that means cutting social spending too. It sucks but it’s that or go bankrupt, ultimately ending up as dirt poor, third world country with nukes like Pakistan.

“corp exc. loosing 9 billion dollars for the company then getting upteen million dollars in parting gifts…seems pretty fair.”

That’s the nature of the beast these days… it could all end if the boards put their feet down, but as long as some corporations are willing to pay like that, good (albeit still greedy) executives will leave their current positions for the high paying ones with the golden parachutes leaving boards to once again, open up the vault to get leadership. Gone are the days of working your way up through the company by knowing your business and doing well at it.

Of course, we see the exact same thing with our governments. Serve a few years and get a healthy pension and healthcare for the rest of your life. The age of eligibility for President is 35. Just imagine, if you can get into office, you earn about $400k a year for four years and then make about $250k a year (plus a staff, office and expenses) for the next 40 or 50 years until you die. Similar packages are available to our governors, legislators (state, federal and local), and similar high office holders.

“The very structure of the goverment and society was set to protect the upper class against the advances of the lower and middle classes”

Not quite, the structure of government was set to protect any minority from the mob rule of the majority. Whether that is the textile workers versus the wealthy plantation over or the evangelicals against the atheists, the principles are the same.

Remember, while the Founding Fathers were pretty rich, they also risked EVERYTHING they had the day they signed the Declaration of Independence and rejected the sovereign crown of England. Had they lost, not only would they have lost their wealth, they would have lost their lives as well. Some of them did so anyway in the effort to defend the colonies against British might.

And it wasn’t to protect their wealth, for that was never in danger, it was to give themselves and their children a better way of life.

“I wouldnt call the insurance companies magical…alot of people cant afford health insurance…and those you have it are not always assured of the best possible care”

Remember, the modern insurance companies were sprung from Congress in the early 70s by the hand of Ted Kennedy. I wrote about it more detailed a few weeks ago, but the short version is Social Security was extended to include medical care in the mid 60s and Medicare was created as part of the Great Society to provide care to the poor. Both ended up causing the price of medical services to skyrocket (it happens every time the government interferes in a market) and caused people to question why they were paying for routine care for other people but not receiving it themselves. By the early 70s, Kennedy decided he could solve the problem government created with the might of more government.

A comprehensive entity known as a “Health Maintenance Organization” was enshrined in law with the idea that if we had routine medicine, we could limit the need for expensive solutions and even if things had gotten that far, the HMO would pay for them anyway. The HMO would have the money by pooling the resources of many people together with the expectation that few would actually need and use the expensive solutions.

What happened is people were no longer paying directly for their care so they used it… a lot. Why not go to the doctor if you’ve sprained your ankle, it’ll only cost you $5 instead of $50.

Now factor in tort… that is, medical malpractice. Lets say you go to the doctor and he wraps your ankle to give it support while it heals. Time goes on and the pain doesn’t go away, so you go back and find that you have a hairline fracture in addition to the sprain. Well, the doctor should have done an xray too and was negligent by not doing so, so you decide to sue him. That causes his expenses (malpractice insurance) to go up and, in turn, he needs to charge more to cover his new expenses.

So, now we’re up to the insurance company paying $45 for your visit, plus $10 for the ankle wrap, plus $45 for a follow up visit, plus $100 for an xray and after you sued, the next visit will cost $60 and come with a mandatory xray (making it a $160 visit instead of the previous $50 one). What you could have treated at home has turned into a $200 expense, but it only cost you $10 so you don’t really care.

Now, factor in that every year, the government mandates that the HMO cover more and more things… birth control, prescription medicine, in vitro fertilization, etc. You may not use them yourself, but other people are using them and they’re expensive. Now factor in an aging population and how expenses skyrocket as you become more elderly. Throw in new tests and expensive techniques (because we have to do anything to save a life instead of looking at whether or not the expense is worth the benefit as well). No matter what, the HMO has to raise its prices high enough to cover expenses (they are a business, often non-profit, but a business and not a charity).

Whether your employer pays it or you do, those increased prices have a negative impact on your compensation. You might be getting $12 an hour from your employer, but you probably don’t realize he’s probably paying that much in taxes and insurance for you too. But since its money you never see, you don’t think about how you’re getting fleeced.

My HMO (single policy, high co-payments since I don’t use it often) went from $500 every 3 months to $1400 every 3 months over the course of about 6 years. At that point, I was forced to make a choice, spend almost $6000 a year on insurance that I’ve used two or three times over that 6 year span (as a health 20 something) or go without it and pay my own way. So, I dropped it. It costs me $50 for a doctor’s visit and $8 for antibiotics instead of $5… but I’ve saved $12,000 in the last two years. At the same time, the HMO pool lost a healthy payer who doesn’t use services because the prices got too high (again, thanks to government mandates).

Now… try to find catastrophic care insurance (ie, classic insurance where it pays if something major happens). Pretty darn hard to find because the government wants to force you into a HMO. A government run HMO (universal socialized medicine) won’t be any better, you’ll still face rationing and limited care, only your premiums will be mandatory. If you want the care you expect now, expect to pay extra on top of a premium that is already higher than you pay now. At least if my HMO screws me, I can appeal it. When the government screws you, good luck getting anyone to acknowledge you even exist.

“when did paying for a heart transplant become expiermental?(ie they dont wanna take any precious pennies out of there pockets to save a life) exmp the girl that died in CA beacuse CIGNA didnt wanna pay for the transplant not medical ness.”

Her case wasn’t about how experimental the operation was, it was a routine transplant, the problem was whether or not the expense would provide a durable probability of life. That is, they expected a high probability of her to dying within months of the transplant because of co-morbid issues she had. That’s one of those calls that ultimately have to be made, whether it’s you, an insurance company or a government bean counter paying the bill. Is it better to spend $2 million on this one life to extend it by 6 months or is it better to spend $2 million on flu vaccines for thousands of people that will save hundreds of lives? Similarly, is it better to use this liver on someone who is going to die shortly after transplanting it (say, Mickey Mantle, who died 66 days after his transplant) or someone who is likely to live another 10 or 20 years with it?

Her case is tragic, and I don’t mean to sound cold hearted, because I’ve been there with my family and watched them die, but it’s just one of those facts of life. There aren’t enough resources (be it money, oil, steel, people, time, organ donations, or whatever) in the world to do everything we wish we could do.