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	<title>Comments on: Wind Turbines Whip Up Health Fears</title>
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	<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/</link>
	<description>Conservatism isn&#039;t about party, its a philosophy that both parties failed</description>
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		<title>By: Sam M.</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-3116</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-3116</guid>
		<description>Just for record The $$$ Bird Lobby and Syria Club are totally against Wind Mills since they say they  kill more Birds than Planes , Hawks and Shooters do according too them  .
The Greens are against Tranmisstion lines as well  and are trying to stop them this minute in California .
Anybody wants more Energy just not in my back  yard , Parks , Mountains ,shore lines and sky&#039;s ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for record The $$$ Bird Lobby and Syria Club are totally against Wind Mills since they say they  kill more Birds than Planes , Hawks and Shooters do according too them  .<br />
The Greens are against Tranmisstion lines as well  and are trying to stop them this minute in California .<br />
Anybody wants more Energy just not in my back  yard , Parks , Mountains ,shore lines and sky&#8217;s ?</p>
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		<title>By: phantomlord</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-2527</link>
		<dc:creator>phantomlord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-2527</guid>
		<description>Windmills only produce power when it&#039;s windy, so it&#039;s unusable as a base load since it doesn&#039;t produce power 24/7. They&#039;re pretty expensive up front ($30k for a small one to power your house, more than a million for an industrial sized one) also need a LOT of maintenance, which, unfortunately tends to correspond to times when its windy and the turbine would normally generate power. An offline windmill is a useless power source. They also tend to kill a lot of birds who follow the wind streams and fly right into the blades.

Now, there are things you can do to mitigate those problems, but they aren&#039;t really very good solutions either. You can store your excess power with batteries, so that you&#039;ll have power in calm times. However, there are inefficiencies in the process of storing and releasing that energy, the batteries are very expensive and you have to replace them all every couple years. You can make bigger, slower turning windmills to reduce the likelihood of killing birds, but with a bigger windmill goes more upfront and maintenance costs.

There&#039;s another little issue too... If we install huge swaths of wind farms, we&#039;re going to alter the wind patterns in that area which will change regional weather, can do things like create swamps or deserts, etc. If you look at mountain ranges, the side which the prevailing winds come from tend to be overly wet and prone to floods and mudslides while the other side tends to be arid. The wind stalls going over the mountain and drops the moisture out of it. Take the Rocky Mountains for example. On the west side, you&#039;ve got the lush California farms and wineries while on the east side, you&#039;ve got the deserts of Arizona and Nevada.

Now, wind can be part of the solution, but it isn&#039;t a solution in itself. I haven&#039;t crunched the numbers, but it probably shouldn&#039;t make up more than 10 or 15% or so of our peak load. Anything more and it will be too expensive and unreliable. Solar suffers from similar problems, and should make up a similar percentage (and solar is extremely inefficient to boot).

The most important power we need to worry about isn&#039;t maximum peak power, it&#039;s base load. We need to make sure we can supply the minimum amount of power required to keep our standard of living going. That means things like lights for your house, medical equipment, water pumps, restaurants and even industrial needs. Base power always has to be available or you can&#039;t have base infrastructure. We only have 4 viable options for base power. Natural gas - the US has a lot of it and natural gas plants are trivial to turn on and off to make sure base power is maintained. Coal - again, we&#039;ve got a ton of it and it makes up a good chunk of power across the US but it&#039;s awfully dirty and actually releases more radiation than nuclear plants. Hydro - things like the Niagara River supply a constant stream of water that never runs out and will always produce consistent power. Finally, nuclear which is the most viable power source and we&#039;ve got thousands of years worth of reserves here in the US even if we were to operate solely on nuclear fuel, but people are scared because of some of it&#039;s early failings that we&#039;ve long since engineered away.

The other big question is transportation. Mass transit is fine for cities, but it means giving up individual freedoms and leaves you at the mercy of the operator. It also doesn&#039;t work for longer trips and people who live out in the sticks where there just isn&#039;t enough traffic for mass transit to work at all. So, we need to do something about how to fuel our vehicles. Wind won&#039;t work, solar doesn&#039;t generate enough power and leaves you unable to drive at night, battery power is just a storage system and has a ton of problems between where to refuel as well as range, heating the vehicle in the winter, etc, hydrogen is just a container like a battery as well and needs a lot of energy to be created, biofuels steal farm land and food for energy and aren&#039;t efficient enough for real large scale use, natural gas isn&#039;t something you want around in a collision and oil is plagued with problems.  There&#039;s no immediate solution here, we&#039;re really going to have to wait for technology, probably battery technology, to progress more and we&#039;re going to have to spend hundreds of billions, maybe even in the trillions range, to upgrade our electrical infrastructure to handle it because it&#039;s already antiquated and pushing the boundaries of its capacity. And most likely, that electricity is going to have to be generated via nuclear plants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Windmills only produce power when it&#8217;s windy, so it&#8217;s unusable as a base load since it doesn&#8217;t produce power 24/7. They&#8217;re pretty expensive up front ($30k for a small one to power your house, more than a million for an industrial sized one) also need a LOT of maintenance, which, unfortunately tends to correspond to times when its windy and the turbine would normally generate power. An offline windmill is a useless power source. They also tend to kill a lot of birds who follow the wind streams and fly right into the blades.</p>
<p>Now, there are things you can do to mitigate those problems, but they aren&#8217;t really very good solutions either. You can store your excess power with batteries, so that you&#8217;ll have power in calm times. However, there are inefficiencies in the process of storing and releasing that energy, the batteries are very expensive and you have to replace them all every couple years. You can make bigger, slower turning windmills to reduce the likelihood of killing birds, but with a bigger windmill goes more upfront and maintenance costs.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s another little issue too&#8230; If we install huge swaths of wind farms, we&#8217;re going to alter the wind patterns in that area which will change regional weather, can do things like create swamps or deserts, etc. If you look at mountain ranges, the side which the prevailing winds come from tend to be overly wet and prone to floods and mudslides while the other side tends to be arid. The wind stalls going over the mountain and drops the moisture out of it. Take the Rocky Mountains for example. On the west side, you&#8217;ve got the lush California farms and wineries while on the east side, you&#8217;ve got the deserts of Arizona and Nevada.</p>
<p>Now, wind can be part of the solution, but it isn&#8217;t a solution in itself. I haven&#8217;t crunched the numbers, but it probably shouldn&#8217;t make up more than 10 or 15% or so of our peak load. Anything more and it will be too expensive and unreliable. Solar suffers from similar problems, and should make up a similar percentage (and solar is extremely inefficient to boot).</p>
<p>The most important power we need to worry about isn&#8217;t maximum peak power, it&#8217;s base load. We need to make sure we can supply the minimum amount of power required to keep our standard of living going. That means things like lights for your house, medical equipment, water pumps, restaurants and even industrial needs. Base power always has to be available or you can&#8217;t have base infrastructure. We only have 4 viable options for base power. Natural gas &#8211; the US has a lot of it and natural gas plants are trivial to turn on and off to make sure base power is maintained. Coal &#8211; again, we&#8217;ve got a ton of it and it makes up a good chunk of power across the US but it&#8217;s awfully dirty and actually releases more radiation than nuclear plants. Hydro &#8211; things like the Niagara River supply a constant stream of water that never runs out and will always produce consistent power. Finally, nuclear which is the most viable power source and we&#8217;ve got thousands of years worth of reserves here in the US even if we were to operate solely on nuclear fuel, but people are scared because of some of it&#8217;s early failings that we&#8217;ve long since engineered away.</p>
<p>The other big question is transportation. Mass transit is fine for cities, but it means giving up individual freedoms and leaves you at the mercy of the operator. It also doesn&#8217;t work for longer trips and people who live out in the sticks where there just isn&#8217;t enough traffic for mass transit to work at all. So, we need to do something about how to fuel our vehicles. Wind won&#8217;t work, solar doesn&#8217;t generate enough power and leaves you unable to drive at night, battery power is just a storage system and has a ton of problems between where to refuel as well as range, heating the vehicle in the winter, etc, hydrogen is just a container like a battery as well and needs a lot of energy to be created, biofuels steal farm land and food for energy and aren&#8217;t efficient enough for real large scale use, natural gas isn&#8217;t something you want around in a collision and oil is plagued with problems.  There&#8217;s no immediate solution here, we&#8217;re really going to have to wait for technology, probably battery technology, to progress more and we&#8217;re going to have to spend hundreds of billions, maybe even in the trillions range, to upgrade our electrical infrastructure to handle it because it&#8217;s already antiquated and pushing the boundaries of its capacity. And most likely, that electricity is going to have to be generated via nuclear plants.</p>
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		<title>By: MugsysMom</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-2511</link>
		<dc:creator>MugsysMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-2511</guid>
		<description>I think these turbines look amazing - from a distance.  I&#039;m sure I wouldn&#039;t want one in my backyard or anywhere too close by.

PL  - how viable are these for an energy source?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think these turbines look amazing &#8211; from a distance.  I&#8217;m sure I wouldn&#8217;t want one in my backyard or anywhere too close by.</p>
<p>PL  &#8211; how viable are these for an energy source?</p>
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		<title>By: phantomlord</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-2502</link>
		<dc:creator>phantomlord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-2502</guid>
		<description>LR, they make ballasts now which multiply the frequency at which fluorescent lights flicker at. They&#039;re pretty much unnoticeable by most people who complain about typical fluorescent bulbs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LR, they make ballasts now which multiply the frequency at which fluorescent lights flicker at. They&#8217;re pretty much unnoticeable by most people who complain about typical fluorescent bulbs.</p>
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		<title>By: rochester_veteran</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-2489</link>
		<dc:creator>rochester_veteran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-2489</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m all for wind power, but there&#039;s a downside for these wind farms. This is the first I&#039;ve heard of the health and behavior effects. How&#039;d you like to have a wind farm go up next to or near your property? Although I&#039;m for the use of wind power, I wouldn&#039;t want to live next to a wind farm.

Those blades are huge. When my son and I were headed up to the North Country  just before Christmas, we saw  blades being transported between Syracuse and Rochester. They must have been 100 feet long and had trailer wheels (reminded me of giant furniture dollies) attached to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for wind power, but there&#8217;s a downside for these wind farms. This is the first I&#8217;ve heard of the health and behavior effects. How&#8217;d you like to have a wind farm go up next to or near your property? Although I&#8217;m for the use of wind power, I wouldn&#8217;t want to live next to a wind farm.</p>
<p>Those blades are huge. When my son and I were headed up to the North Country  just before Christmas, we saw  blades being transported between Syracuse and Rochester. They must have been 100 feet long and had trailer wheels (reminded me of giant furniture dollies) attached to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Leavingroch</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-2484</link>
		<dc:creator>Leavingroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-2484</guid>
		<description>I can see this happening, I get very bad migraines from Flourscent lights ( I am sure I spelled that wrong). The low almost undectable flickering causes the migraines, and they last for a LONG time. I have been in treatment for several years and haven&#039;t found anything to help yet.. I imagine the low frequency noise and vibration could and does cause problems. 

Too bad money and energy is much more important then people</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see this happening, I get very bad migraines from Flourscent lights ( I am sure I spelled that wrong). The low almost undectable flickering causes the migraines, and they last for a LONG time. I have been in treatment for several years and haven&#8217;t found anything to help yet.. I imagine the low frequency noise and vibration could and does cause problems. </p>
<p>Too bad money and energy is much more important then people</p>
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		<title>By: MugsysMom</title>
		<link>http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/wind-turbines-whip-up-health-fears/comment-page-1/#comment-2480</link>
		<dc:creator>MugsysMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterconservative.com/blog/?p=611#comment-2480</guid>
		<description>Awww geesh!  Don&#039;t let my sister see this!  She gets freaked out by the sight of these things!  No need to give her any more reason to hate them!

But....if there are disturbances, which I can believe there might be......simply place these in less / unpopulated areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awww geesh!  Don&#8217;t let my sister see this!  She gets freaked out by the sight of these things!  No need to give her any more reason to hate them!</p>
<p>But&#8230;.if there are disturbances, which I can believe there might be&#8230;&#8230;simply place these in less / unpopulated areas.</p>
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